Eudaemonia

Humanity, with Muhammad Lila

July 29, 2020 Kim Forrester Season 7 Episode 2
Eudaemonia
Humanity, with Muhammad Lila
Chapters
Eudaemonia
Humanity, with Muhammad Lila
Jul 29, 2020 Season 7 Episode 2
Kim Forrester

Muhammad Lila is a global correspondent and news anchor renowned for producing compelling stories for CBC, ABC News and CNN. In 2019, Muhammad founded Goodable, a multi-platform network devoted to good news.

On this episode of Eudaemonia, Kim chats with Muhammad about the concept of applied humanity and discusses how we can become more compassionate, kind, and connected with the people of our planet. 

Show Notes Transcript

Muhammad Lila is a global correspondent and news anchor renowned for producing compelling stories for CBC, ABC News and CNN. In 2019, Muhammad founded Goodable, a multi-platform network devoted to good news.

On this episode of Eudaemonia, Kim chats with Muhammad about the concept of applied humanity and discusses how we can become more compassionate, kind, and connected with the people of our planet. 

Kim Forrester :

We all have a concept of what it is to be human, but what does it mean to be humane? How can kindness, goodness, understanding and love transform our lives and our communities? I'm Kim Forrester. You're listening to the Eudaemonia podcast and, today, we're going to explore how we can heal our world through humanity.

Intro :

Welcome to Eudaemonia, the podcast that is all about flourishing. Plug in, relax and get ready for the goodness as we explore the traits and practices that can help you thrive in life ... with your host Kim Forrester.

Kim Forrester :

Muhammad Lila is a global correspondent and news anchor renowned for producing compelling multi-platform content - often in hostile and remote areas of the world. His career has taken him from CBC to ABC News and on to CNN, where his work included powerful investigative reporting for the CNN Freedom Project. In 2019, Muhammad founded Goodable, the world's first 24-7 news network devoted purely to good news. It is my delight to be connecting with Muhammad today, to explore the concept of applied humanity and to discuss how we can each become more compassionate, more kind, and more connected with the people of our planet. Muhammad Lila, welcome to the Eudaemonia podcast. It is such a pleasure to have you here with me. How are you today?

Muhammad Lila :

This is the best day of my life.

Kim Forrester :

Well, that is the most amazing attitude. We love it, bring it on! I wanted to talk to you specifically about humanity, in terms of applied humanity. And let's start with your job as an international news correspondent. In that role, Muhammad, you have covered some pretty dark topics, right? You've covered KKK rallies, and human trafficking, and active war zones. And in my view, because of the work that you've covered, I think you'd be forgiven if you'd become pretty cynical and pessimistic about the world. After all you have witnessed and reported on, what is it that keeps your hope for humanity alive?

Muhammad Lila :

First of all, Kim, thank you for having me on. And that is a beautiful question because I know that there are many people who are in my position - correspondents who have travelled around the world and have covered a lot of dangerous and sometimes dark stories - that have lost hope. They have become sceptical, they've become cynical, they don't see the world is getting better. All they see is humanity's faults and failures repeating over and over again. And I came across that point in my life, too, where I had a choice to make. I could have gone down that road, or I could have gone down a different path. And I chose a different path. And the reason why is that, when you travel around the world and you see so much darkness, there's something inside the human soul that cries out for good. It's like, for example, if you're in a cave that's very dark, there's something inside you that will cry out for sunlight. An example that I use often is: if you're in a modern city, and that city only has McDonald's. This is nothing against McDonald's. I have a lot of friends who go to McDonald's, I get McDonald's once in a while, too. But if all you had to eat was McDonald's, and one day somebody opened up a health food store - like a Whole Foods. Imagine the attraction that that one store would have because they were offering something meaningful and wholesome, rather than something that was heavily processed and not always good for you. I think we have a choice in the way that we live our lives and the way that we look at the world. And I try to look at the world through the lens of goodness. And the one thing that I found in all of my travels ... people ask me this all the time, "What have you learned as a result of covering the Taliban in Afghanistan, covering ISIS, having them try to kill you, doing all this crazy stuff?" My answer is always the same. It took me a while but I realised that at our very core, human beings are all the same. If you ask a mother, who lost her child in Chicago to a gang shooting, how she feels - if you could extract that emotion from her and hold it in your hand - it would look and feel and weigh exactly the same as the grief of a mother in Afghanistan, who lost her child to a drone strike. In that sense, every human being is the same. It doesn't matter what colour you are, what language you speak, what race you are, or what religion, there's a fundamental aspect inside all of us that's the same. And I think because of that, if you look at all of the negative things happening in the world, you can say, "Great, this is horrible. There are all these negative things happening in the world." But you can also say, "You know what? I saw this amazing story of a young girl, you know, who rode her bicycle 1000 miles with her grandfather, or her father, on her back just to get him treatment for COVID-19. What an amazing story." And that story is actually something that's not unique to one region. That's something that all of us have inside us to accomplish. And that is how I choose to look at the world. And that, I think, or I hope, is what keeps my humanity alive.

Kim Forrester :

We've become quite fixated on differences. And certainly I think in our modern age, with information overload, and with social media, the differences seem to be amplified. You're saying there, though, that we have this thread of humanity. And the way that you frame it - beautifully - is that sense of grief or the sense of love that we all share. Do you feel there is a way for us to see through our differences and find our way to that humanity, that human spark of life, that we all share?

Muhammad Lila :

I think, to tell you the truth, it's getting harder and harder because there are powerful forces in the world, including a lot of economics and a lot of business and a lot of money, that exists solely for the reason of keeping people apart. There are a lot of people that are making a lot of money by playing up the differences that we have between us. But I think it comes down to a very fundamental choice that we all have. It's a choice that we have in how we choose to see the world and how we choose to live our lives. And one of the things that I found - at least over the last ... definitely over the last couple of years - is that kindness spreads. Just like hatred can be contagious. Kindness is contagious as well. And I choose to believe that kindness is more contagious, and more powerful, and more unifying than anything else in the world. And I think that we - and I say 'we' in very broad terms, meaning we, as the human species - have something hardwired in us that wants other people to be happy, just the way that we are. If you look at small children, they've run a number of tests where they show that children were given food. And they were put into a room where they had friends or other children that didn't have food. And the food was something special, like a marshmallow, or, you know, a bag of crisps or chips, something that they really liked. And what they found was that the children would look at the ones that didn't have any, and give them of their own supply that was given to them, and share them. And they didn't get anything in return. They just saw the other child was sad and they gave them what they had themselves, to make them happy. And that suggests that we are hardwired to make other people happy. Somehow - I don't know how this happens, quite - but somehow as we get older, all the forces of negativity in the world, and selfishness and those things, somehow they kind of take over and they prevent that natural human instinct that we have from blossoming and from growing. And so I think what we really need is to go back and reclaim that part of our human nature that has been in us since day one, which is a desire to help people rather than hurt them.

Kim Forrester :

Muhammad like you, I have been truly blessed to have been able to travel and live all over the world. And through those travels, I've come to understand and appreciate a wide range of cultures and faiths and worldviews. Do you feel that travel and diverse cultural experience is a powerful factor in expanding our sense of humanity?

Muhammad Lila :

If I were to say 100% that would be an understatement. I would say 1,000%. When I was young, when I was 17, my parents had saved some money for my first year's tuition at university. And I told my parents that, as soon as they gave me that money, I was gonna blow it all on a trip; to go and travel to places that I wanted to travel. And so I somehow convinced them. I said, "It's better that you give me the money while I'm 17 so that I can go and spend it, work over the summer and make the money back." And it was it was a logical argument. And they agreed. So when I was 17 years old, I went to Mecca, I went to Jerusalem, and I went to Damascus, all on the same trip. Three amazing Ancient World cities all on the same trip. And I went to London as well, which is also pretty good as well. And that one trip opened my eyes in a way that no textbook ever could, no YouTube video ever could. And so if it was up to me, I would actually mandate that all schools work in one semester where a student is expected to travel. I'm just a very strong believer in being able to experience and taste other cultures as a way of growing your own being,and growing your own, as you say, growing your own sense of humanity.

Kim Forrester :

For those who can't travel, Muhammad, and there are many people for economic reasons or you know, for health reasons that can't travel. And certainly because of the pandemic recently, it's become more and more difficult to do so. Do you feel that people can expand that sense of cultural diversity and cultural awareness from their own homes or from their own communities?

Muhammad Lila :

You know, I read a very interesting thing that was common in Europe and, quite frankly, in other regions during the Middle Ages. And even beyond - even right up to like the 19th and early 20th century. Oftentimes, people would send their children to go and live with extended family members in other parts of the world. So, for example, it was very common in the Middle Ages, for example, if you lived in one town, for you to send your child to live with a cousin or an uncle in a completely different town. Maybe where they spoke a different language, where they had a different culture, where they had a different custom. And they might spend as long as a few years there and then come back. Now there are all sorts of practical reasons for that, you know, a lot of this had to do with farming economies, and the availability of labour, and social networks, and social support. But one of the biggest benefits that had was that, it exposed people automatically, at a young age, to different ways of living. And they were able to do that without spending money because they relied on extended family. Now, in today's modern world, we don't always have that support system. So the question becomes, how do you do it? Well, Singapore is a great example of this because, within Singapore, you have probably one of the most diverse populations of anywhere in Asia, maybe anywhere in the world. And so it's very easy to experience other cultures without leaving your city, if you live in a place like Singapore. Now, you could say, well, not every city in the world is as diverse as Singapore. You can't just, for example, if you're living in Austin, Texas, you know, you can't go and sample dozens of types of Asian cuisine, because they might not be available. No, but even within the place that you live, just given the way the world is, there are people from other cultures, there are people who speak different languages. Again, Toronto where I am is not a good example because it's so diverse. But in Toronto, you walk into the shopping mall and you'll hear between 12 and 15 different languages being spoken at any given point. And for those of us that grew up in that environment, that's normal. You'll find the same in in a lot of major world cities. So I think it's possible to supplement, or maybe even replace, travel by exposing yourself to cultures, languages, and people that don't look like you; that don't sound like you. Some of the smartest and the most well balanced people I've ever met were people who randomly decided to study a different language when they were in high school and completely immerse themselves into that culture that they didn't know before. And I think that's something that everybody can do nowadays, I guess because of the pandemic, even from the safety of their own homes.

Kim Forrester :

One of the most extraordinary things that I love about Singapore - as you say, so many different ethnicities and so many different faiths here - we celebrate just about every major religious festival from all the different religions and faiths around the world. You know, we celebrate Vesak Day, which is Buddha's birthday, and we have Hari Raya Aidl Fitri at the end of Ramadan, and Christmas, and Easter and Chinese New Year. And certainly for me, and I know that anyone can do this in the community that they're in, celebrating someone else's special day.

Muhammad Lila :

You know, and I think that's so beautiful Kim, because one of the things I think the world needs that would solve a lot of problems, both on a local scale and even a global scale, is just understanding how important things are to other people. So for example, you're exposed in Singapore to Ramadan. You know that the Muslims are fasting. I don't know if you're fasting yourself, but that's okay. It's enough for somebody to look at another religion or another culture and say, "I don't follow it, but I understand how important this is to them." And I think that, right there, is actually the answer to world peace. So if you ask a very deeply religious Christian, or a deeply religious Buddhist and a Muslim, and you got them all to the same room, they're not magically all going to turn into the same religion overnight just by sitting and talking to each other. What might happen is they might say, "Look, I hold these beliefs very deeply to me, but I can now see how your beliefs are so deeply held for you." And that's enough because it's unreasonable to expect people to agree. I think disagreements can actually be a force for good in the world. But what we need to learn to do is give people space. As long as they're not harming anybody, as long as they're not, you know, a danger to themselves or to others, give people space. Let them live, let them have their beliefs, let them have their way. And that's enough.

Kim Forrester :

While we're on the subject of dignifying what is important to other people, a few years ago in an interview, you were explaining how meaningful it can be to simply pronounce someone's name correctly.

Muhammad Lila :

That's right.

Kim Forrester :

But if we want to learn to pronounce someone's name correctly, or if we want to understand some of these religious rituals or cultural practices, it can feel really awkward knowing how to broach that subject, right? It can feel really awkward knowing how to ask in a way that is sort of respectful and non-offensive. From your experience, Muhammad, what's a respectful way for us to ask someone about and learn about these deeply intimate personal details?

Muhammad Lila :

That's a very good question, and I think the answer is using a tool that we use as journalists, all the time, which is going into a situation and assuming you don't know anything about it. Oftentimes, the best interview questions that you can ask are also the most ignorant. And it doesn't mean you don't know anything about it, it just means that you have to humble yourself to say, "You know what, I don't know". And it has to come from a place where it's genuine. So, for example, I've been lucky, I've done interviews with world leaders. And sometimes they would say something and I would have to, have to pause ... I would have to actually literally pause the Dalai Lama, as he's expounding wisdom, because I have no clue what he's talking about. And I would have to say, "I'm very sorry, Your Holiness. I don't understand. Can you explain that to me in simpler terms?" And it's very difficult, you know, because we go into situations all the time thinking we know more than we actually do. And I'm not saying that as journalists, I think just as human beings, you know. "Oh, well, you know, I know about this because I read it on Wikipedia." It doesn't make you an expert, it just means you think you know something. But if you abandon that, if you shed that presupposition that you know something, it makes it much easier. So I think, for example, if I were in Singapore, I would see things that I have never seen before; I would see religious ceremonies, I would see foods, I would see all sorts of things. And I think the way that - the right way - to approach it is out of a sense of genuine humility. Just approach people and say "Listen, I'm really sorry. I've never seen this before. I'm new here, or I don't understand this. Can you explain this to me?" Or, "I've never come across somebody", for example, "whose first name starts with the letter X." So if you grew up in the English language, it's rare to find people whose first name starts with the letter X. It's even more rare when you're dealing with people whose names have been transcribed from an Asian language. The X is pronounced very differently, right? So it's not an X like Xavier, it's a 'shu', right? And so, you know, you run the risk of mispronouncing that person's name, unless you can work the courage to ask them and say, "Listen, I'm very sorry. It's not part of my cultural framework that I was raised with, what's the right way to pronounce your name?" And here's a simple test that you can do. When you get lost and you need to ask for directions, how do you ask for them? Do you ask for them as though you know something? Or are you just completely lost? Right? So I, if I get lost, and I'm on a subway somewhere, I'll say, "Excuse me, I'm really sorry but how do I get to the Upper West Side?" Or if I was in Toronto, I'd say, "I'm really sorry but how do I get to the CN Tower?" And if you think about how you ask that - the tone of your voice - it's a very sincere thing that you're asking, Well, why can't we just ask sincerely about all sorts of stuff: people's names, people's cultures, their religions? I think we can do the same thing. But there's something inside of us that maybe feels insecure, like we don't want to offend people and and that's understandable. But if it comes from sincerity, then I don't think we need to worry,

Kim Forrester :

That kind of brings us back to children. Because I think children ask with humility and ask with pure curiosity, don't they? They ask any sort of question that they want to know.

Muhammad Lila :

It's built in and let me ask you, Kim, isn't that innocence beautiful?

Kim Forrester :

Yeah, absolutely. And it resides within each of us still, right? It's just been battered down, I think. And actually, that brings me to my next question. I'd love to hear your answer on this. Most of us actually go through life replaying the patterns, and the habits, and the thought processes is that we're taught as children, right? Those thought patterns, and those habits, and those behaviours that bring us away from that beautiful innocence of self. Do you feel that there are things that we can unlearn as adults that will take us back to a pure sense of humanity?

Muhammad Lila :

There was a really good book written by a philosopher named Rousseau; Jean-Jacques Rousseau, a very famous ... I think it was during the Enlightenment period in Europe. And he wrote a book. It was called Emile. I think it was called Emile. Forgive my ignorance if it wasn't, it's been a while since I read it. But Emile was his fictitious daughter. And the book describes how he raised his daughter to basically un - I don't know if this is the right word - but to unpollute her upbringing from all the trappings of modern Western society. All the expectations, all the processes that had been introduced as a result of living in that time, in that world. And he wrote the book as though he wanted to maintain her fundamental humanity before it got damaged and tampered by the modern world. And it was very interesting because things like schooling, things like what it means to be a citizen, things like social constructs really come into focus when you ask yourself, "Am I doing this based on a social construct that I live in? Or am I doing this because it's the right thing to do?" So there are a tonne of things that we need to unlearn. One of the best books that I read in my life was a book called A Different Kind of Teacher. It was written by a teacher himself, who became a scholar, by the name of John Taylor Gatto. And Mr. Gatto passed away recently - like in the last few years - but the book was so interesting because he ran his classroom in New York City very differently. He was in one of the most impoverished districts in all of America. Most of the children that he had were first or second generation immigrants. Parents were working multiple jobs. There were drug issues in his district, there were attendance issues in his district, there was violence, you name it. If you think of the worst place to teach in America, it was his district. And what he started doing was, he started letting the children take control of their own education. So he only actually taught in a classroom for one or two days a week. One day a week was self-designed study where the kids found something that they enjoyed and they built their own study programme around it themselves. Another was 'go to work with your parents day'. So if your parent, if your your father or mother is a nurse or a mechanic, or a carpenter, or a delivery person, you go to work with them and you learn whatever it is that they know. Another thing that he did was, he spent a day with the children - one day a week - on a field trip where they would participate in something that made them feel like they were part of a community. It could be going and volunteering in a soup kitchen, it could be building houses with Habitat for Humanity, it could be any number of things. But he wound up winning the best teacher in America for two years in a row. And if you read his book, A Different Kind of Teacher, it's all testimonies from his own students, talking about the difference that he made in their life and how he made them see that they were part of an actual community that was beyond the borders and the walls of their school. And I think this is something that unfortunately, we need to unlearn. If you live in a modern city, it's very hard to find a community. I mean, nowadays in North America, at least, sometimes you're lucky if you even know your neighbours more than two houses away from you. But the reality is that if there's a flood on your street, you will need your neighbor's help, and they will need yours. So whether you like it or not, you're part of a community. I think we have a false sense of community sometimes. What we need to go back to is a real sense of community, where you don't feel shame to go to your neighbor's house and say, "I'm very sorry, but I just ran out of eggs and the grocery store is at least 10 minutes away. Can I just borrow an egg or two?" There are parts of the world where you can still do that. I've lived in parts of the world where that's still normal. But unfortunately, we've lost that in a lot of other places. And I think if we can ... if we can unlearn some of those modern trappings, it'll bring us closer together as humanity.

Kim Forrester :

Muhammad, I want to talk about Black Lives Matter. Now, I certainly am not qualified to add to the conversation, but I love to listen, you know, to what others have to say. In my view, the Black Lives movement is vitally important. It is desperately overdue. And I feel that it is about time that we had a conversation about systemic racism. The only challenge that I find is that the Black Lives Matter hashtag is very USA-centric. And there are many people around the world, including myself and others that I know, that would actually like to expand that conversation and include marginalised groups and systemic inequalities in our own countries; in our own communities. In your view, how can we sort of localise this Black Lives Matter movement and have this really important, overdue conversation in a way that still honours black America and their very real call for justice.

Muhammad Lila :

You know, Kim, that is a super important question because there are racial injustices and very real inequality around the world, that target all sorts of racialized and minority groups. I'm not an expert in this. And so if somebody were to ask me, for example, "If George Floyd were alive today, what would you ask him?" And my answer would be, "Well, I wouldn't ask him anything, I would just listen." And I think if you are not part of the black community in America, you can be an ally, you can be a supporter, and you can try to understand, but I think the most important thing is just to listen. The way you introduced this issue is beautiful because that's the most important thing that you can do. In America, at least, amongst sort of the the right wing and - I don't want to say the left wing but amongst the right wing and people who support Black Lives Matter - one of the important debates is Black Lives Matter versus All Lives Matter. And on the surface of it, you could say, "Well, okay, nobody would disagree that black lives matter, and nobody would disagree that all lives matter." They're both valid propositions, right, if you look at it. But what the Black Lives Matter movement, as far as I can tell, is saying is, that they're not saying that all lives don't matter, right? Or they're not disagreeing with all lives matter. What they're saying is that there's a particular moment right now in history, where the needs and the issues of the black community need to be addressed. And if you step back and you look at it, it actually makes a lot of sense because this has been building up for 400 years. Black Lives Matter is not something new. It's not something recent. It's been going on for generations upon generations upon generations. And so this is an immediate need, that people of that movement field needs to be fixed, right away. Which doesn't eliminate the need for other types of racial inequality and injustice to be taken away. It's just an acknowledgement from that particular movement that now is time. It's time now to address this in a meaningful way. And I think there are a lot of people out there that would say this is absolutely important and hope that something will happen, following this, that will address other injustices, and that will address other inequalities in their own ways, in their own regions, in their own languages. I think the key is that it just it has to be organic. Anytime you try to create or manufacture a movement without organic, grassroots support, it never succeeds. Again, I'm not an expert and I just try to listen as much as I can. But pray and hope that something organic happens. For example, indigenous peoples are fighting for their rights in many countries, including Canada. And my hope is that they will eventually get their rights as well. And I hope that it becomes an organic process that's strong and robust, and that grows out of some of the social movements that we're seeing in other parts of the world. But it has to be an organic process. It can't be something that's forced.

Kim Forrester :

Certainly, in my view, a shared dignity, a shared equality is what we need to underpin a healthy and sustainable humanity.

Muhammad Lila :

Yeah, I love your use of the word dignity and dignified because I think that solves a lot of problems for people in different parts of the world. For example, there are certain types of food that I just cannot stand. But I hope that people who eat food that I don't eat, still have a dignified place to make the food and sell the food and sell it to whoever they want. But I think dignity is the key, right? Because I think dignity is worth fighting for, even when you disagree with somebody.

Kim Forrester :

Absolutely. Muhammad, I'm up to my final question and this is a question I ask every guest on the Eudaemonia podcast. Can you offer a simple morning reminder - so this may be a practice a mantra, perhaps an affirmation that is important to you - something that my listeners can start using today to help them amplify a sense of shared humanity.

Muhammad Lila :

Can I answer that question through a very short story? I mentioned earlier that I've been blessed to interview some really interesting people. One of them was His Holiness, the Dalai Lama. And I have to admit, in all honesty, I think the interview was about an hour long, I don't remember any of it. The interview was very structured, and I had to make sure I got all my questions out. And I don't remember much of it at all. Afterwards, you know, when the interview was over, I felt like I could exhale a little bit. And I recall that during the interview, he was always laughing. He's a very giggly kind of person. He giggles a lot. And I said, Your Holiness, you're always laughing so much. When in your life were you the most happy? And I thought he would say when he was a child in Tibet, or maybe when he reached some milestone in his life. And without hesitating, he said "Right now". And I said, "Your Holiness, I'm sure this is just how you're charming to all the journalists that you meet. I'm sure you say that to everybody." And this is when he got serious. And he said, "No, no, no, no, no." He said, "Yesterday, just memory in my mind, just in my head, just in my brain. It no longer exists. Just a memory." And he said, "Tomorrow, just an expectation. Maybe come, maybe don't come. Don't know. Only expectation in my mind." And he said, "The only point where I exist is this moment, right now." And he said, "And now I have choice. And I choose happy. I choose happy." And so that was his answer to why today is the most ... is the happiest day of his life. And that's the one thing that I remember from that interview. I don't remember anything else. And I remember I was at the grocery store in Toronto a couple of years later. And I was at the cashier and I was checking out my groceries. And, you know, when you when you meet people that say, "Hey, how are you? How's your day going?" And I stopped in my tracks, and I said, "This is the happiest ... this is the best day of my life." And the cashier ... and she stopped in her tracks. And she was so taken aback. She said, "What happened? Did you just have a child? Did you get a new job?" And I told her the story. And she said, "That's a lovely story. I'm going to remember it." And three months later, I went to the same grocery store and I saw the same cashier. She didn't recognise me. And I said, "Hey, how's it going?" And she looked at me and she said, "This is the best day of my life." And it was such a small lesson that His Holiness taught me that day that I think has the potential to change a person's day. So even if you're not having the greatest day in the world, if you stop when somebody asks you, "Hey, how's your day going?" and you think about it: you're alive, you have food, you're hopefully in good health, and this moment is the only moment that you can control, so why not choose to be happy? If we can implement that in our daily lives, I think the world would be a very, very different place. And I think it would amplify our shared sense of humanity.

Kim Forrester :

What a beautiful way to bookend the interview, because that's exactly how you started.

Muhammad Lila :

That's right. You know what? That's right. That is how we started, isn't it?

Kim Forrester :

It's almost like you planned it, Muhammad. If my listeners want to learn more about you, and particularly about Goodable, where can people find out more?

Muhammad Lila :

So two things: one is find us primarily on Twitter. Our handle is @Goodable. Follow us, share us, our DMs are always open. Send us your good stories. We're actually at the point where we are looking for good news correspondents around the world. So if you are plugged into any acts of goodness happening in your neighbourhoods, please send them to us at Goodable. The next thing that we're going to be launching very soon, in the next few days, is we are going to be giving out our phone number. And we are going to ask people to add us to their contact list, with our phone number, so that they can reach us more or less whenever they want with any tips or story ideas, and that we will in return we'll be able to send them good news alerts whenever amazing good news happens around the world, directly to their phone. Oh, that sounds truly inspiring and uplifting. Muhammad Lila it has just been such a delight to spend this time here with you today. Thank you for choosing to gift your time, and your wisdom, and your experiences and be a part of the Eudaemonia podcast. Thank you so much, Kim and if there are any new listeners out there, they need to be subscribing to your podcast because I am smiling ear to ear, right now. And this is after only - what - half an hour, 45 minutes. Imagine if you could listen to a podcast that made you smile ear to ear on a regular basis. I think that's what you're doing. So thank you so much for having me on.

Kim Forrester :

As the poet Robert Browning wrote, "Love, hope, fear, faith. These make humanity. These are it's sign, and note, and character." You've been listening to the Eudaemonia podcast. If you'd like to learn more about how to live a truly flourishing life, please subscribe and check out www.eudaemoniapod.com for more inspiring episodes. I'm Kim Forrester. Until next time, be well, be kind to yourself and let humanity be your guide. Transcribed by https://otter.ai