Eudaemonia

Meaning, with Rabbi Simon Jacobson

February 10, 2021 Kim Forrester Season 9 Episode 3
Eudaemonia
Meaning, with Rabbi Simon Jacobson
Show Notes Transcript

Rabbi Simon Jacobson is considered one of the greatest scholars and most sought-after speakers in the Jewish world. He is the author of the best-seller, Toward a Meaningful Life, and Founding Dean of The Meaningful Life Center. On this episode, Kim Forrester connects with Rabbi Jacobson to explore the concept of a meaningful life, and to learn why nourishment of the soul is vital if we want a flourishing life and a thriving society. 

This episode is made with love and without expectation. If you like what you hear, you may consider supporting Kim's work at buymeacoffee.com.

Kim Forrester:

Studies show that meaningful activities are incredibly good for you; strengthening your personal relationships, enhancing physical and emotional health, boosting resilience and compelling you to live longer. I'm Kim Forrester. You're listening to the Eudaemonia podcast and, today, we're going to see beyond the physical, rise above the intellectual, and reimagine a life full of meaning.

Intro:

Welcome to Eudaemonia, the podcast that is all about flourishing. Plug in, relax and get ready for the goodness as we explore the traits and practices that can help you thrive in life ... with your host Kim Forrester.

Kim Forrester:

Rabbi Simon Jacobson is the author of the best selling book, Toward a Meaningful Life, and he is Founding Dean of the Meaningful Life Center. Rabbi Jacobson is considered one of the greatest scholars and most sought-after speakers in the Jewish world, yet his message is for all people. It's my honour to be connecting with Rabbi Jacobson today to explore the concept of a meaningful life, and to learn why nourishment of the soul is vital if we want a flourishing life, and a thriving society. Rabbi Simon Jacobson, it is just wonderful to have you here on the Eudaemonia podcast. How are you today?

Simon Jacobson:

I'm very well. And it's a pleasure to be with you and an honour. I commend you for using technology to reach the world, especially in these trying times.

Kim Forrester:

Rabbi, you begin your book by discussing the duel nature of human existence. Right? You talk about the body, and the soul. And I love the way that you define this idea of the soul. You explain in your book, that the words in a book are like the body, but the ideas behind those words is like the soul. Why is an appreciation of soul of - of human essence, or a spiritual self - why does that matter when we talk about living a life of meaning?

Simon Jacobson:

Because, at the end of the day, especially in today's very highly materialistic world, when we focus on the superficial and on the surface level, we are just really not maximising the potential that each of us is capable of. Today, we understand that everything contains energy, whether it's the DNA in our beings, or it's the microscopic, subatomic particles in the physical world. And as long as you live on that surface level, you really cannot live a meaningful life or, as I call it, a transcendent life. That's not just one of survival and existence, but one of deeper purpose and fulfilment, and passion and excitement. And yes, meaning. That sense like a mission statement. It's simply not possible without digging beneath the surface of the body and entering into the domain of the transcendent soul.

Kim Forrester:

Now you do write that our bodies are more nourished than they have ever been in human history. Right? We have an excellent standard of living, we live longer, we have great technology, as you have pointed out. And yet you say, we are starving for meaning and spiritual nourishment because we're using the wrong tools to find meaning, to seek meaning, to create meaning in our lives. How are we misguided and what would you encourage as a more effective tool for finding meaning in our daily lives?

Simon Jacobson:

Ah, the million dollar question, and it really comes down to this - I think that our homes and our education systems have to be overhauled, if I may. They focus so much on efficiency. Our children are taught as being efficient; learning mathematics, the physical sciences, and less about so-called 'themselves' and their deeper purpose in life. So you focus on the means instead of on the end. You ask most young men and women - and for that matter, older men and women - like, what's the hub, what's the centre of your life? Who are you? And many people will give you their business card, when in fact, your business card just reflects what you do, not who you are. So that ultra-focus on getting results, making money, influence, building equity in your life really distracts us from the core or the heartbeat, I would say the heartbeat, of who we are. And that is love, relationships, soul, spirit. And you see this. People are overwhelmed at work. Obviously the first casualty is going to be their relationships; is going to be their intimacy. It's going to be the love that they give or receive, because the material world tends to distract us. And you can get off on a type of instant gratification and forget about the hunger and that thirst within yourself, which is really for some deeper purpose; something more permanent than just the impermanent things of our lives.

Kim Forrester:

I can absolutely see that meaning and purpose have everything to do with who we are being, and not necessarily anything to do with what we're doing. But are there cases where what we are doing is meaningful? And let me frame it this way - can there be meaning in more superficial, more physical pursuits? Can seeking fame, or seeking money, or seeking ultimate beauty be meaningful if it feels purposeful for a specific individual?

Simon Jacobson:

That's a very good question. An excellent question. As a matter of fact, since you're quoting my book. Toward a Meaningful Life, that's exactly what I did. Every chapter of that book goes through the spectrum of our lives. You'll see there's a chapter on education, there's a chapter on work, there's a chapter on health, there's a chapter on money. Every aspect of our lives can be spiritualized. So in other words, the mundane activities - even a simple meal, or a simple walk, even those superficial things - if you infuse it with purpose. Simply put, you're eating a meal - you can either indulge in it and just satisfy your own needs, or you can say to yourself, "You know, the strength I gain, the nourishment I gain, I will use that strength to help do a favour to another. I will share a kind word." And we have that option, literally 24-seven, every moment of our lives. Are you just going to live a self-egocentric, self-interest driven life? Or are you going to live a life where you use your activities for some deeper purpose or some greater good? Or some kindness? So the answer is straightforward. To put it in a more mystical terms, there's a fundamental tension between matter and spirit; between matter and energy. And the only way to relieve that tension is to direct matter towards spiritual ends. That's what I find is so powerful, because what it is, is really about essentially elevating and transforming our daily simple activities. Well, another way of putting it - making the ordinary extraordinary.

Kim Forrester:

Now you just touched on this in your last answer there, and I absolutely love this idea that perhaps the concept behind meaning is to live more mindfully; to live more consciously. To understand that we are a single thread in the tapestry of life and so, everything we do has consequences. Right? It has repercussions. And therefore, everything we do has meaning. Do you feel being more mindful, more conscious, in the way we walk through the world makes a difference to how meaningful we find our lives to be?

Simon Jacobson:

Absolutely. Kierkegaard put it this way. He says, "We can only understand our lives backwards, but we have to live our lives frontwards." And I like to put it this way - your life is really more of a book than a line. And that a book, a narrative, has many chapters and has many different twists and turns in the plot. But we often get stuck on the moment, whether it's a moment of joy, or it's a moment of pain. And if you see your life like a journey, which it truly is, it's a journey that's going to have many different twists and turns, many unknowns. Many curveballs may come our way. And understanding there's a bigger picture and that every step of the way is one frame of the story, or one chapter of the story, helps you realise that everything is going elsewhere, and it's building a bigger picture. And that really helps us get through the more difficult times, and also puts things into context and perspective when you see things like the bigger picture in forming the smaller picture. But often people get very immersed and inundated with a moment. And they forget that their story continues on; the narrative continues to flow. It's like watching a movie and just leaving in the middle of the film and not letting it play itself out and see the entire story.

Kim Forrester:

That is so powerful, Rabbi, particularly in our very modern instant-gratification world. What you're saying there is that there is meaning in this moment - we just may not know what that is right now. We have to allow the story to unfold and the meaning and the purpose will emerge over time.

Simon Jacobson:

Absolutely. Look, in this highly technological world, Kim, what has happened is we become spoiled in a way, where we're so accustomed to that sense of entitlement - that I can press a button and get something delivered at my door in moments - this type of instantaneous gratification, that we have somewhat lost the appreciation that things take time to emerge. There's a process. You can't pull a flower out of the ground that has to grow. You need to nurture it. And respecting the process is a tremendous gift. And understanding your life properly. Instead of, "Oh, if I can't get it right now, I'm frustrated." No, such things take time. Love takes time. Trust takes time. Everything that's real in life, you'll see is always a process and emerges. It's not something you can force, and it's not something you can purchase.

Kim Forrester:

Rabbi, let's go back briefly to that idea of body and soul, and the tension between the two, and the interaction between the two. I think it could be very easy to intellectualise the concept of what is meaningful for us. And I think that many of us have to resist the tendency to think, "Well, you know, this should feel meaningful. This ticks all the right boxes". Or I think we need to resist the urge to pursue activities that others tell us are meaningful. How can we tell when something is truly meaningful for us, as an individual? And, in particular, Rabbi, how does our body respond when our soul is being nurtured?

Simon Jacobson:

I love the word 'resonance'. I think resonance is a very powerful word. It's like when you hear a song, no one needs to tell you that the song is touching you. You don't need proof, you don't need documentation, you don't need the laboratory tests. It just resonates with you. And you either dance with the beat or you sing along. You get transported to another time and place. So I think the first way to recognise that something is truly true, is when you see it resonating within you. It's almost like hearing something you always knew was there, but you couldn't quite articulate. And I think a second thing is, there's a line that I really love that I don't know who coined it, but that people don't care how much you know, until they know how much you care. We respond when people care. It may not even be brilliant and philosophical. But there's something about that - empathy. And I think empathy also is another resonating element. Now, obviously, there are predators out there, and manipulators and con artists that can take advantage, so you need to have your wits about you and make sure that you don't allow yourself to be hurt by someone. But very often, you can recognise this type of resonating truth. And that's how you really learn to navigate. My point is that resonance also comes when you feel that there's a certain strength, or faculty, or capacity you have that maybe has not been appreciated. And when you hear someone encourage you - sing your song, express your voice - that too is a very powerful type of reinforcement, that should also help your soul speak. And your body will feel comfortable, because there's a there's a certain seamlessness that comes into play. But the opposite is also true when you suddenly feel yourself doing things, or saying things, or acting in ways that go against the grain of your nature. And often what's happening is you're just mimicking herd mentality - conformity and all the other forces that really, essentially submerge your soul. And your soul goes into hiding, because it's not the real you that's speaking and not the real you that's communicating.

Kim Forrester:

That word 'resonance'. What an exquisite word, Rabbi, and I do feel that maybe we should all use it five times in a sentence in the coming week. Right? And seek it out in our lives. I just love it. As you were saying, your book, it is just delightful. And it takes us through all the phases of our lives and the ways in which we can imbue meaning into each of those phases. But throughout the whole book, I noticed three recurring themes - curiosity, humility, and an appreciation of our own potential as human beings. What role do these three concepts play in a more meaningful life?

Simon Jacobson:

Well, the common denominator among all three is that it's not about focusing on you, but on something beyond yourself. Curious of something that's outside of you. The humility, the ability to listen the ability to absorb. We often get so consumed with my opinion, my feelings, that we forget that the single most important thing in life is being able to listen to another being able to hear a deeper truth. And when you are very consumed with your own turbulence with your own life, you really sometimes lose sight ... it's like you can't hear the subtle hum of the beautiful violin due to the loud noises all around you. So it's really about opening yourself up; a type of getting your self interest out of the way and allowing yourself to experience something beyond you, which of course, is also the essence of love. Truly loving another - not selfish love - is really putting your needs aside and being able to experience another, listening to another perspective, opening yourself up to new horizons and new possibilities getting out of your comfort zone. Growth comes when you open yourself up to other experiences beyond yourself. That's how I see those three items. Yeah.

Kim Forrester:

That's awesome, Rabbi. Now, as children, we see ourselves as the centre of the universe, right? It's what helps us survive. And seeing ourselves as the centre of the universe convinces us that we have meaning. Do you feel that we lose the certainty and our significance as we grow older? Do you feel that we lose a sense of worthiness as we grow older? And, if so, is there a way for us to reclaim significance and worthiness in our adulthood without it coming across as being self-centred or arrogant?

Simon Jacobson:

Well, the answer is, to both questions, absolutely, yes. I believe we lose our sense of individuality and significance - and I would even use another word, indispensability - due to the fact that the people around us make demands of us. Whether it's our parents or educators, society, the media, they start creating a template that they expect us to live up to. And there's a certain subtle, or sometimes not so subtle pressure, to be something that you may yourself not resonate with you. So, like, if you come home, and you're really excited about something and your parents smirk or they dismiss it. So as a child, you begin to suppress your natural reaction because you want to make them happy. And this happens on an ongoing basis. What essentially happens is, you start losing confidence in your own instincts, your own self confidence. You start trying to be someone else, that you really are not. Trying to satisfy someone, you become a pleaser. You become a conformist. You don't follow your voice. Healthy parents, of course, we'll have a combination. There's nothing wrong with having good expectations. But you also want the child to own to own it. You don't want to be pressured, that they feel the only way they'll be liked or the only way they'll be valued is if they serve someone else. How many of us, for example, a measure our value, our self-worth is defined by our net worth, or by our looks, or by other superficial things. So it's good to look good. And may God bless everyone to be wealthy. But if your identity is defined by these externals, then what happens is you start losing sight of who you truly are. And the way to reclaim it, Kim, is by reconnecting again to yourself. It doesn't matter how old you are, and it takes courage. It takes effort, because once you're used to doing things that others want of you, you sometimes are afraid to try something new because you may be criticised; you may fail. But anytime in any part of our lives, all of us are fully capable of reclaiming that inner voice that we own.

Kim Forrester:

You make another observation about childhood that I absolutely love. You say that children are naturally fidgety, and as a mother of two very dynamic children, they they're adults now, but I totally understand the restlessness of childhood. You of course, say that it's a sign of vitality and spiritual restlessness. Is the same true in adulthood, Rabbi? Can it be that a sense of restlessness in us is a sign that we're craving more meaning in our lives?

Simon Jacobson:

Yes, yes, yes, indeed. I use the analogy in the chapter on body and soul, that the soul is like a flame. A flame. Look at a flame. A flame is never in one position. It's never stationary. So it's flickering. It's always restless. It's actually a healthy sign of the human being, that we are restless creatures. And I say restless. I'm not discussing necessarily anxiety. Let me give you an example. I remember giving a class and there was a cardiologist who I know well. Has a very difficult life. And he came over to me and said, "Rabbi Jacobson, can you give me a blessing that I should have one day of peace?" He had issues with the spouse, with his family, with health, many, many different issues. And so, you know, in a humorous way, I respond. I said to him, "One day of peace. You mean like a flatline?" And he said, "No, no, no, no, no flatline!" As a cardiologist it's ... all of us know, if you look at a cardiogram, the healthy heart is a heartbeat. It looks like a wave. It's not flat. You don't want anything flat. You want it to be a wave with its peaks, and there's valleys, but there's balance. High states of anxiety is when you have high peaks, and you don't have a proportionate resolution. We need healthy tension and resolution in our lives all the time, where you feel a certain healthy angst that motivates you to grow, and then you internalise it, and resolve it. And then you grow again. It's like climbing a ladder. So, whether a child or adult ... children have this naturally, until it's, unfortunately, beat out of them at times. But adults as well. If you feeling restless, you should thank God, because it means that there's a voice in you that has not been killed. There's something in you that saying, is beckoning you, do something, reach out. And that restlessness is really a reflection of a soul, a soul's hunger, seeking some deeper meaning, some deeper purpose. And that's how we should see restlessness. It's really the most healthy part of our beings. People think restlessness is a bad thing. It's not. I understand anxiety is when the restlessness spills over and becomes something that controls and can disturb your life. But healthy restlessness is really the motivation for all our growth, for all our achievements and accomplishments.

Kim Forrester:

You're also very clear in your book that you see disruption, and rebelliousness, and a pushing back against the constructs of society as being really powerful tools when it comes to finding meaning. I think that many adults would consider, sort of, acting out and speaking up as something that's disruptive and unwelcome. You know, they'd prefer to just sort of keep the pace and obey all the rules. But you say that rebellious energy can be very meaningful and very powerful in our lives. Why is it important for us to harness anger, discontent, and that sort of very teenage like rebellious intent, and funnel all that energy and really meaningful and constructive ways?

Simon Jacobson:

Every form of growth, to put it in the words of the mystics, everything needs to go through a vacuum. You need to go through the awkwardness of adolescence to grow from a child into an adult. The egg needs to crack for a chick to come out. A mother goes through birth pains to give birth to new, beautiful child. Creativity is a child of frustration. Wherever you see any significant growth, wherever you see any paradigm shift, it will always be preceded by some type of disruption and discomfort. Because as long as you're continuing the old, you're not going to get something new. You'll just have more of the same. So any breakthrough has to come with some type of meltdown, like shedding one layer of skin to assume a new layer of skin. And there's simply nothing in life that doesn't work that way. We need to just see it through. The problem is that people don't want discomfort. And instead of recognising - like we discussed earlier - the narrative as a story, it's not just the crack in your life, it's the crack that lets the light in, as Leonard Cohen sings. And the crack therefore, is a step toward growth. And any type of ... it's like, the first time a child goes to school, the child will cry, goes to camp, summer camp, they leave home - when we leave, when we grow up - there's always going to be some pain of separation. But that separation leads to greater growth. And I think we are opting for the more comfortable approach, and rather have the comfort than the growth. Which of course is sad, because we have so much great potential. But it never will come on its own; it will always requires some leap, some discomfort. And discovery, by definition, means you're moving from one paradigm to a better one.

Kim Forrester:

Now, Rabbi, I think for most people, the concept of meaning is entwined with the idea of a career or a vocation. You write that work is not just about paying the bills, or accumulating our wants and our needs. You say it underpins what it means to be human. It's all about contribution. How important is it, that we pursue meaningful work, meaningful careers, meaningful contribution? And - you did touch on this earlier in the interview - if it's simply not possible for us to engage in what we think or feel is meaningful work, are there ways we can find meaning in what ever work we are engaging in?

Simon Jacobson:

Yes, well, like anything in life, we talk about body and soul. We need the fusion of these two forces because we live in bodies, but we're essentially souls; are essentially transcendent creatures. And therefore, we need to find ways to fuse the two. You can't just live on the spiritual level because we live in a physical world, and living on the level of survival and existence is just not satisfying. We get bored, it's monotonous and it can lead to all types of other troubles. So talking about work has those two elements as well. If work simply becomes a monotonous, tedious effort, which you're only enjoying because you need to have your paycheck, you're going to, at some point, it's going to catch up with you. But, however, if whatever work you're doing - it can be menial labour, it can be something very noble - you can always use it for some greater good. You can teach others, for example, some of the expertise you've learned through your job. The interactions you have with co workers or with employees and employers, you can always add some type of compassion, something kind. You may not be required by your job but why not be a nice person? You're really doing that work. The particular work you do can teach you deeper lessons about human psychology, human nature, the human condition. But you need to be conscientious. You can't just go into automatic pilot and be, like, mindless. If you allow yourself to think about it and concentrate, any type of work - literally, I mean that across the board - can be somewhat elevated to a higher state.

Kim Forrester:

Yeah, I guess the question we can ask ourselves if we feel that we're doing meaningless work, is "How is this contributing to society? How am I being of service to others? How is this job enabling me to perform a service that is more transcendent?" Would that be right?

Simon Jacobson:

Yeah, absolutely. Let's take an example. Let's find an example of meaningless work. Anything comes to mind, Kim?

Kim Forrester:

Um, emptying the rubbish bins. Collecting the garbage cans.

Simon Jacobson:

I was thinking the same thing. I see we think alike. Okay, so that may sound like, okay, you know, it's a really, very ... it's almost an embarrassing job, because you're cleaning, throwing out other people's garbage. So first of all, let's look at the human body. The human body - it's just as important that we digest the nutrients, it's also important that we dispel the waste. So the concept of dispelling waste, per se, is also a lesson in life. That we dispel the waste in order to be able to focus on the positive things. So number one, anyone doing that job, even though it may not be a ... some may say, "I'm not proud of that work", but that work is part of human nature, as well. The nature of existence is always looking to clean out any wastes or any extras that need to be dispelled. So that's just one example. Number two, you have coworkers, you have people you work with. What is your attitude? What is your demeanour? So the fact is that you're in that position, you can help other people. You never know. You say something kind. You could just be angry about your job and just be bitter and frustrated, and go to work with this sour face, and, obviously, it's going to have an effect as well. Or you can have a very positive attitude. So there's always reasons to find, especially if you know that you were sent to this Earth to achieve some greater purpose. Even throwing other's rubbish, I have to say, has purpose. Would I prefer that work. No, obviously, I would prefer not doing it. But as if I ended up being there, that position, because whatever the reason was, I would have to find deeper meaning. And that's the way it is. You never know why you're there. And anything that you're doing could always be some type of way can be redeemed.

Kim Forrester:

One of the gifts of 2020, I believe, for people all over the world, is the appreciation, the recognition of how meaningful these small jobs are. I think we've come to see, many of us around the world, that there are people out there in society who are doing almost invisible jobs. And those jobs are so meaningful for us as a society. So I love your answer there. At the end of your book, Rabbi, you discussed the concept of retirement and I was absolutely delighted that you raised this particular topic. It seems to me that most of us have bought into the idea that we toil now, right, we do these superficial tasks now, so that we can have a meaningful life at the end of our career or contribution. The fact is, though, that many retirees end up depressed, disillusioned and in despair. How can we approach the concept of retirement in a way that is healthier for us, and that enables us to find meaning at every age and every stage of life?

Simon Jacobson:

As I write in my book, retirement and the elderly are actually under-appreciated, because even though they may be physically weaker than they were when they were younger, but their minds and their experience is tremendous. Society is actually losing out and throwing out a tremendous resource that we've called experience. So the first thing is, you need to know within yourself that you are absolutely valuable. Every moment you are here on Earth - doesn't matter whether you feel weak or old and cannot lift as many weights as you were able to lift when you were 30 years old - you still have tremendous value to be given to this world. And you have to recognise that. The society would do itself a service if it recognised that as well. As a matter of fact, the very word retirement - think about it, Kim - the word itself says I'm retiring from life. I'm, like, giving up. Almost fatalism. Where that's not the case at all. I mean, at the end of the day, even if society doesn't appreciate you, I'm saying this to any elderly person, you need to realise your soul does not age, it only gets more vibrant.

Kim Forrester:

Let's sort of flip that around a little bit and talk about younger people who sort of feel, 'Well, retirement's a long way away. So, you know, I'm just going to do what's required now, meaningful or not.' In your book, you encourage us to understand that we can imbue our lives with meaning, now. Do you feel that if we are careful and more considerate of what is meaningful for us when we are younger, will we get to retirement more attuned to what is meaningful and purposeful in our lives?

Simon Jacobson:

No doubt, no doubt. I'll take it even a step further. I believe that the obligation of parents and educators - from the youngest stage, not just the teenagers or young adults, but even from young childhood - to cultivate the spirit within us. It's more important than even nourishing the body. Obviously, we need to take care of our health, and eat and drink and exercise well, but the spirit means infusing your child, infusing your teenager, infusing anyone, with that type of sense you're here for a reason. You were sent to this world to have an indispensable mission to fulfil. I will do everything possible as your parent or educator to help you actualize that voice, that song that you need to sing. And when you are able to introduce and infuse your life with that level of spirit, that will enrich every stage of your life. And absolutely, when you reach older age, when you have that type of attitude for years and years, so then it's just a matter of another transition where you say, "Okay, so now how do I experience my spiritual side as I age?" So really, there's no question spiritualizing your life at any stage will infinitely enhance every stage every aspect of your life.

Kim Forrester:

Rabbi, my final question is one that I asked every guest on the Eudaemonia podcast. Can you perhaps share a morning reminder - this may be a practice, a mantra, maybe an affirmation - something that can help my listeners infuse their daily lives with a little more meaning?

Simon Jacobson:

How do you like this, Kim? I was going to suggest that even had you not asked me. I always like to conclude with that as well. So I see our minds think alike. Yes, it's very straightforward. It's a several-thousand-year tradition that comes from two sources, but it's very universal. And it's beautiful. And as soon as you wake, before you do anything else, before you press the snooze button, before you jump out of bed, before you do anything, here's the mantra, here's the thought, say out loud or in your mind. "Thank you for returning my life to me." Basically acknowledgement, gratitude. You have a new day, new opportunities, new possibilities. Thank you for making me indispensable, thank you for giving me a soul that has much to give to others, illuminating warming other people. You begin every day with that focused message, I assure you that it will spill over to the rest of your day. You'll want more such moments. It's setting the tone for a new day. And with that, you go into the day saying, "Okay, so how can I now express my soul and everything I do?" We spoke about work. We spoke about social interactions, whatever age in life you are. So you're beginning that day ... and do it consistently every day, and I assure you because I've seen this from experience, it will transform your life.

Kim Forrester:

"Thank you for returning my life to me." That is absolutely beautiful, Rabbi. Rabbi Simon Jacobson, it has just been such an honour to have you here on the show. If my listeners want to learn more about your bestselling book, Toward a Meaningful Life, and you also have the Meaningful Life Center, how can people find out more about you?

Simon Jacobson:

Exactly by that name. Go to www.meaningfullife.com - that's my website. There you'll find a full array of materials, including my book, Toward a Meaningful Life, but also programmes that I really update on a daily basis, that address really the entire spectrum of life. And no matter what age you are, no matter what background, it's a very universal and beautiful site. And I invite to come visit there and please drop me a note. I'm accessible. I would love to hear from any one of you. And it's really been a real honour, Kim, to be able to communicate. There's nothing greater than the dignity of intersecting souls that cross-pollinate.

Kim Forrester:

Well, I feel truly inspired. My body is resonant at the moment, Rabbi. So, thank you so much for choosing to be a part of the Eudaemonia podcast today.

Simon Jacobson:

A pleasure and honour, greatly.

Kim Forrester:

According to the American author and attorney, Kilroy J. Oldster, "We create a meaningful life by what we accept as true, and by what we create, and the pursuit of truth, love, beauty, and adoration of nature." You've been listening to the Eudaemonia podcast. If you'd like to learn more about how to live a truly flourishing life, please subscribe and check out www.eudaemoniapod.com for more inspiring episodes. I'm Kim Forrester. Until next time, be well, be kind to yourself, and follow what feels most meaningful.